Chat POLL & Discussion - should Canada have the right to bear arms (for self defense)?

[OG_funguy]

Just like the title says - would you be supportive of bearing arms in Canada? Why or why not?

Take poll at top of thread...must vote to see results (poll is anonymous).

 

[Hornet]

Canada Gun Facts and Stats | TheGunBlog.ca

Canada Gun Facts and Stats answers your questions: How to buy a gun in Canada? How to get a gun licence? How many people have guns? How many guns in Canada?

thegunblog.ca

Canadians already have the right to own guns in Canada. There are over 2 million registered gun owners. You need a safety course and license to own a gun. Shotguns and long rifles are the most common as they are what is suited for hunting. It’s just certain types that are Restricted in Canada that are not in the US (e.g AR-15 type semi-automatic assault rifles).

 

[BmH6769]

I’m all for it, all I need is a Glok 9mm, just to protect meself and family. A lot of frds who own business would like to own one too

 

[UsefulIdiot]

Canada Gun Facts and Stats | TheGunBlog.ca

Canada Gun Facts and Stats answers your questions: How to buy a gun in Canada? How to get a gun licence? How many people have guns? How many guns in Canada?

thegunblog.ca

Canadians already have the right to own guns in Canada. There are over 2 million registered gun owners. You need a safety course and license to own a gun. Shotguns and long rifles are the most common as they are what is suited for hunting. It’s just certain types that are Restricted in Canada that are not in the US (e.g AR-15 type semi-automatic assault rifles).

You are right. I have friends who legally own all kinds of guns, mostly for hunting and target practice (which I find boring). I am a clumsy guy and would probably shoot myself in the foot (I carry a knife and have cut myself a few times), but so long as we do not have too many problems I see no need for more restrictions than we currently have. I think Canada has pretty reasonable guns laws. I think the most important thing is that as a culture and a country we have pretty sensible attitudes towards firearms. I have never heard someone in Canada try to make the case for legally owning bazookas, RPGs, and fertilizer bombs. Since people are not currently packing when they buy groceries or draw guns when they get into arguments over parking spaces I think we are okay. For now.

 

[Ursus]

Yes.

The police bow down to BLM protesters, so good luck if that group - BLM - decides to target you and your family one day.

 

[stripfan]

Yes.

The police bow down to BLM protesters, so good luck if that group - BLM - decides to target you and your family one day.

It's my theory that the thriving gun culture in the States is based in large part on a fear of what the blacks will do.

 

[OG_funguy]

Canada Gun Facts and Stats | TheGunBlog.ca

Canada Gun Facts and Stats answers your questions: How to buy a gun in Canada? How to get a gun licence? How many people have guns? How many guns in Canada?

thegunblog.ca

Canadians already have the right to own guns in Canada. There are over 2 million registered gun owners. You need a safety course and license to own a gun. Shotguns and long rifles are the most common as they are what is suited for hunting. It’s just certain types that are Restricted in Canada that are not in the US (e.g AR-15 type semi-automatic assault rifles).

Yes, but the 'right to bear arms' means to carry for defensive purposes...not for hunting (for example)

 

[hangul99]

Yes, but the 'right to bear arms' means to carry for defensive purposes...not for hunting (for example)

Extremely difficult to get a license to carry a handgun outside the home if your job is not one that qualifies for it.

 

[UsefulIdiot]

Yes, but the 'right to bear arms' means to carry for defensive purposes...not for hunting (for example)

Okay then, I change my vote. I do not think we are there yet. If I feel threatened I might change my mind. Right now the biggest danger I face is myself. Today a fight nearly happened in front of me and I had the impulse to intervene. In my head I am thirty years old, strong and can kick ass, but in reality I am in my late fifties, have a bad knee and arthritis all over my body. Since I was walking my 15 lb. dog I thought better of it. One guy chased another guy around a planter for a while and then things fizzled out. Life in downtown.

 

[OG_funguy]

Extremely difficult to get a license to carry a handgun outside the home if your job is not one that qualifies for it.

Agreed, this was more of a 'hypothetical' discussion to see if guys 'think' we should be allowed to do that here in Canada...

Can you imagine if MPAs started to carry guns in spas..."what...only a $20 tip you cheap bastard!"...bang!

 

[OG_funguy]

Okay then, I change my vote. I do not think we are there yet. If I feel threatened I might change my mind. Right now the biggest danger I face is myself. Today a fight nearly happened in front of me and I had the impulse to intervene. In my head I am thirty years old, strong and can kick ass, but in reality I am in my late fifties, have a bad knee and arthritis all over my body. Since I was walking my 15 lb. dog I thought better of it. One guy chased another guy around a planter for a while and then things fizzled out. Life in downtown.

I edited my original post to make it more clear...

 

[Hornet]

Yes, but the 'right to bear arms' means to carry for defensive purposes...not for hunting (for example)

That’s why I voted “No”. If you look at the US you see problems that overlap and compound other issues. There is systemic racism in the US and a lot of that is because unless you are in a large city many different cultures just don’t interact with each other. You end up with stereotypes and predetermined biases vs firsthand experiences and knowledge.

If you look at how many black men are being shot by police as a ratio vs other races it all starts to make sense. Handguns are allowed in the US, so everyone thinks somebody is carrying. Most cops are white and have pre-determined biases towards black men because they didn’t interact with them growing up. They go to a call where a black man is involved, have a level of alertness and fear due to predetermined biases, think he’s carrying a gun because there are so many guns in the US so it’s a reasonable assumption, they don’t have proper training to deescalate the situation and the issue instead escalates further , they then end up shooting an unarmed black man, it hits the news, society says enough is enough, BLM forms and protests, and so on. Remove the handguns from that equation and maybe a black man doesn’t get shot, maybe there is less animosity to the police, and so on.

if hand guns are allowed in the general society we will all be more fearful because we think everyone has one on them.

 

[xtc27]

Not a right. A privilege.

If it’s a right, then:

• children
• insane
• demented
• psychos
• Trump supporters (who aren’t in previous groups)

...would have to get one. Nah.

 

[sy barite]

Yes, should be easier to own a gun for self defence, but it should come with enforced requirements to train so you prove you know how to use it competently and there should be safe handling (storage) requirements. I say yes because if you need to defend yourself or your loved ones, it is almost always impossible to have cops there in time to do anything but draw the chalk line around the bodies.

Gun ownership is another topic where tons of uninformed people have strong opinions. For an excellent primer on the issue, look up the article "Riddle of the Gun" by Sam Harris.

 

[sy barite]

That’s why I voted “No”. If you look at the US you see problems that overlap and compound other issues. There is systemic racism in the US and a lot of that is because unless you are in a large city many different cultures just don’t interact with each other. You end up with stereotypes and predetermined biases vs firsthand experiences and knowledge.

If you look at how many black men are being shot by police as a ratio vs other races it all starts to make sense. Handguns are allowed in the US, so everyone thinks somebody is carrying. Most cops are white and have pre-determined biases towards black men because they didn’t interact with them growing up. They go to a call where a black man is involved, have a level of alertness and fear due to predetermined biases, think he’s carrying a gun because there are so many guns in the US so it’s a reasonable assumption, they don’t have proper training to deescalate the situation and the issue instead escalates further , they then end up shooting an unarmed black man, it hits the news, society says enough is enough, BLM forms and protests, and so on. Remove the handguns from that equation and maybe a black man doesn’t get shot, maybe there is less animosity to the police, and so on.

if hand guns are allowed in the general society we will all be more fearful because we think everyone has one on them.

Like I was saying, uninformed, strong opinion. Almost every claim in this post can be statistically disproven.

 

[Hornet]

Like I was saying, uninformed, strong opinion. Almost every claim in this post can be statistically disproven.

I’ll await the statistics then.

here’s some statistics on how black men get shot by police at a higher percentage rate than other races

Risk of being killed by police use of force in the United States by age, race–ethnicity, and sex

Police violence is a leading cause of death for young men in the United States. Over the life course, about 1 in every 1,000 black men can expect to be killed by police. Risk of being killed by police peaks between the ages of 20 y and 35 y for men and women and for all racial and ethnic groups...

www.pnas.org

Gun Threats and Self-Defense Gun Use

1-3. Guns are not used millions of times each year in self-defense We use epidemiological theory to explain why the “false positive” problem for rare events can lead to large overestimates of the i…

www.hsph.harvard.edu

 

[mar91]

I completed the gun safety course in Canada when I was 14 (earliest age you can take the course) and I owned my first rifle by age 15. One of my older brother's gave me his rifle as he didn't want it anymore. Eventually I gave it to one of my other brothers who currently owns 4 rifles I believe. One of my cousins use to have a cabinet that was made in the form of a wagon wheel and he had it full of rifles and I believe he owned two hand guns.

You may be able to tell I didn't grow up in the city, where I grew up getting your gun safety course was just one of those rites of passage just like getting your drivers license at 16 (back then there was no graduated licensing, you either had a license or you didn't) and then liquor ID at 19. It really wasn't a big deal, unless you were one of the ones who failed the course then you would be ridiculed by your peers. My friends and I use to go out hunting when we were that age which to some people I know in the city think it was mad that 14 year olds were carrying rifles and going hunting.

 

[sy barite]

I’ll await the statistics then.

here’s some statistics on how black men get shot by police at a higher percentage rate than other races

Risk of being killed by police use of force in the United States by age, race–ethnicity, and sex

Police violence is a leading cause of death for young men in the United States. Over the life course, about 1 in every 1,000 black men can expect to be killed by police. Risk of being killed by police peaks between the ages of 20 y and 35 y for men and women and for all racial and ethnic groups...

www.pnas.org

Of course black men are shot more. They commit more crime. If racism were the reason, then you wouldn't see black cops shooting black suspects more often than white cops do. No one denies blacks have contact with police at a rate that's out of propotion to population, the question is why.

Cops in the U.S. kill about 1000 people per year and about 25% of those are black men. However, despite comprising only 6% of the popuation, black men make up 50% of the convicted murderer population. This kind of involvment in crime holds true for the black male population across most violent categories. That's why they are having encounters with police at a disproportionate rate.

Violent assault, rape, break and enter, the black male population is WILDLY over represented. Finishing school, black males population WILDLY under represented. Sure racism will be a factor, but not the dominant one, not even a very influential one. These are facts.

If you wish to claim systemic racism, please point out where it exists and how it functions. Just pointing to disparity by racial group proves nothing. I can point to the fact that something like 32% on Physics Nobel laureates are Jewish males. Do you see racism there too?

 

[Hornet]

Of course black men are shot more. They commit more crime. If racism were the reason, then you wouldn't see black cops shooting black suspects more often than white cops do. No one denies blacks have contact with police at a rate that's out of propotion to population, the question is why.

Cops in the U.S. kill about 1000 people per year and about 25% of those are black men. However, despite comprising only 6% of the popuation, black men make up 50% of the convicted murderer population. This kind of involvment in crime holds true for the black male population across most violent categories. That's why they are having encounters with police at a disproportionate rate.

Violent assault, rape, break and enter, the black male population is WILDLY over represented. Finishing school, black males population WILDLY under represented. Sure racism will be a factor, but not the dominant one, not even a very influential one. These are facts.

If you wish to claim systemic racism, please point out where it exists and how it functions. Just pointing to disparity by racial group proves nothing. I can point to the fact that something like 32% on Physics Nobel laureates are Jewish males. Do you see racism there too?

25 simple charts to show friends and family who aren't convinced racism is still a problem in America

Research has extensively documented the differences between the Black and white experience in the US, from wealth and education to incarceration.

www.businessinsider.com

Systemic Inequality: Displacement, Exclusion, and Segregation

The United States must reckon with the racism built into its housing system in order to ensure that all Americans have the opportunity to build wealth.

www.americanprogress.org

...and Nobel prizes are awarded from Sweden so it’s totally irrelevant to a narrative on systemic racism within the US

 

[Hornet]

I completed the gun safety course in Canada when I was 14 (earliest age you can take the course) and I owned my first rifle by age 15. One of my older brother's gave me his rifle as he didn't want it anymore. Eventually I gave it to one of my other brothers who currently owns 4 rifles I believe. One of my cousins use to have a cabinet that was made in the form of a wagon wheel and he had it full of rifles and I believe he owned two hand guns.

You may be able to tell I didn't grow up in the city, where I grew up getting your gun safety course was just one of those rites of passage just like getting your drivers license at 16 (back then there was no graduated licensing, you either had a license or you didn't) and then liquor ID at 19. It really wasn't a big deal, unless you were one of the ones who failed the course then you would be ridiculed by your peers. My friends and I use to go out hunting when we were that age which to some people I know in the city think it was mad that 14 year olds were carrying rifles and going hunting.

You are not mad. I’ve been around guns and the rural north and I get it. I have no issues with shotgun and long rifle ownership. I just have issues with handguns and semi-automatic assault rifles on city streets.